Engraving Forum.com - The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community

The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community
Discuss hand engraving using basic to the most advanced methods and equipment
Forum Members: 13,453. Welcome to our newest member, bruced
EngravingForum.com - Domain since Feb 7, 2003

Graver Video Conferencing is empty Join now!


Go Back   Engraving Forum.com - The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community > Forums > Tutorials and Contests - Hand Engraving Forum
ENGRAVING TOOLS - Paypal accepted Classes Glossary Feedback Tips Sharpening Bulino Videos Forum Policies

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-07-2009, 11:42 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

For those that are interested we will deep relief and sculpt a pratice plate together. I will try and lay it out step by step, answer questions, then add another step. First make a tracing of my design and transfer it, the total size should fit under a penny. Grind up 4 tools, two 45 degree (deep outline, red template) tools one with a very slight radius for detail and one with a larger radius for outlining,( in the picture the larger radius looks larger than it really is, if you can reduce the picture to real size you will have a better idea ) Third tool is one of my flat sculpting and relief tools (blue template) keep the tip small for background removal then make it larger for sculpting by resharpening the face, and the forth tool is the scraping tool(green template) for finial finishing and shaping.
If this is your first try cut to a depth of about .010 or a max. of 1/64in. the design I'm cutting is about .050 a little less than 1/16in. When cutting all your outlines lean the tool away from the outline you can make more than one pass to form the islands, next removed the islands with the small tipped flat, level background the best you can then give the background a matt finish this will give you a good look at what has been done so far. Next we will get into the fun part sculpting.
Your work will look rough but please post pictures so we can work on this together, I cann't help if I cann't see what you are doing. I am useing an Artisan for the outline and background, for the sclpting I will use the Classic hand piece.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Attached Images
File Type: jpg trans crop.jpg (115.5 KB, 1153 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0919.jpg (69.1 KB, 1116 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0925.jpg (41.7 KB, 1048 views)
File Type: jpg out c.jpg (148.6 KB, 1109 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0898.jpg (88.3 KB, 1004 views)
File Type: jpg bk 1.jpg (73.5 KB, 1096 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0901.jpg (90.9 KB, 1030 views)

Last edited by carl bleile; 04-07-2009 at 11:46 PM. Reason: adding text
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-08-2009, 12:14 AM
jetta77's Avatar
jetta77 jetta77 is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. George Utah
Posts: 274
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl, is there a reason why you choose to cut out the background as apposed to using small carbide burs to remove it? Just curious... I'd like to start this project also so I'll go ahead and copy, or make a similar design and start cutting.

These cutting lessons via the forum ROCK.

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-08-2009, 12:16 AM
Vanknife Vanknife is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Florauna Park Pretoria South Africa
Posts: 351
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Good day Carl,
I want to thank you for this opportunity and would really like to participate although I don't have the templates, I will try and keep up and post some pictures.

Thanks for your generosity in sharing your skills.

Cheers

"VAN"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:48 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Oh this is going to be fun!

I probably won't get to start until Friday, unfortunately, but I will be following along.
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2009, 09:14 AM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Jeff, I don't use burs because it would be another tool to deal with, one miss touch and it could be hours of rework, but mostly once you get use to useing a flat it is much quicker, accurate, and leaves a flater background. I understand where useing a bur would seem the thing to do but trust me learning the flat is the way to go plus when you are doing very small areas burs can only get so small and your still left with the radius they leave. I have put serious effort in trying to use the burs to help myself but in the end I can do the work in 1/3 the time with better detail. You have brought up a good point and this is where someone like myself that has tried many different techniques over the years (say wasting time) has figured it out on their own what tool and technique works then advise others so they may start learning the right way with out developing bad habbits. Learning to use and control the flat will be helpful in many other areas of engraving.
Van you can do this project with a 90 degree tool or Lindsay universal point your depths of cutting will be less but it can still look good.
Mr. SVD, I like your attitude I hope we will all have fun and learn something!!
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2009, 09:15 AM
JP Anderson's Avatar
JP Anderson JP Anderson is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Havre, Montana
Posts: 421
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl,

What are the overall dimensions of the your practice plate? I understand the subject fits under a penny but I'd like to start out with the same size plate just to keep things in perspective.

John
__________________
Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2009, 09:24 AM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

John, the size of the pratice plate is 1 3/4 x 1 1/4
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:09 AM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl:
I appreciate you taking the time to do this tutorial, I want to jump right in and start from the beginning. I have spent the morning sharpening tools. I am still having trouble understanding the red template, but I am sure that will come when I see what I need to do the practice plate. Here is a shot of the outline of the work. I think I should post pictures at every stage, that way ya'll can see what I may be doing wrong. I cut this with a 90 and I am sure it is not deep enough yet. I am going to work on it some more after I have lunch.
Carl
Attached Images
File Type: jpg forum.JPG (47.0 KB, 302 views)
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:41 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I took a minute and found the threads for each of the templates so we all have an easy reference for making them up:
The Blue 'Sculpting & Relief' tool
The Green 'Scraper' tool
The Red 'Deepline / Banknote' tool

TIP: If you right-click on the link you can have it open in a new window / tab so you don't lose your place here.

NOTE FOR STEVE: A couple of things that would be a nice addition to the 'Sharpening' page of the store would be that picture you have of the templates with the 'order of grinding' numbers added and a list of links to the 'how to sharpen the xx template' threads.
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-08-2009, 12:24 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl W you can do it with a 90 but don't try and go as deep as I did.
It would be nice if you could sharpen one of my deep relief tools because it will make it easyer to do some of the detail work where a wide angle tool won't fit. Now that your pratice plate is this far use the tool you have been useing and lean it over to get some more background out of the way and make your islands smaller. Keep any lines inside the design thin these are for reference and keep in mind that 100% of your design will be reshaped after it is sculpted.
Steve thanks for showing the posts on sharpening.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-08-2009, 12:33 PM
WVEngraver's Avatar
WVEngraver WVEngraver is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,650
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Lookin' great Carl!!!

Sure would like to follow along today but I'm torturing myself with a 40 year old slab of aluminum
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-08-2009, 01:18 PM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Steve:
Thanks for looking up the threads to the templates, it will help a lot.

Carl:

I used the blue template to remove the background, as you can see in the photo below I am having trouble keeping the outer edges clean. I do not have a matting tool so I used a stipple, and after photographing and cropping I can see I need to re stipple the whole thing to make it smoother. Any suggestions on how I could clean up the outer edges now that it is already cut.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Forum 2.JPG (32.5 KB, 211 views)
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-08-2009, 03:28 PM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

CarlW

Since I'm going to have the same problem I looked up Pauls Tutorial:Making a Punch on how to turn an ordinary nail into a punch.

Someone, somewhere posted a nice little table of colors / temperatures for hardening steels. It was a scan of one of their handouts from when they teach. I printed myself off a copy so I'll refer to it for the hardening / tempering part of making the punch. Since it's a matting punch I'll just anneal the nail, trim and flatten it, then whack into a file for the texture. Grind it down a bit and / or make a few more of different sizes and shapes, then harden and temper and I should be good to go.

Might start with finishing nails for some small punches.
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-08-2009, 03:42 PM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Steve, you are a lifesaver with your ability to look up things so fast, I will sure try this and let you know how it turns out. I may have to cut another design for this practice thingy.
Thank you once again.
Carl
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:10 PM
Gail Gail is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ocala, Fl
Posts: 397
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I want to do this too, and also won't be able to start until sometime next week. It will be hard to wait, but such is life.
Thanks for doing this Carl.
gail
__________________
festina lente
make haste slowly
A. Caesar
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:37 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl W. you didn't wast any time getting started and your work looks good. There are a hundred tips I could give out but cann't type them all so Ill go at them as they come up. If Carl W. doesn't mind we will use his piece for a reference. (1) When you cut your outline leave space between the cut line and the true or finial outline so that if you get any nicks or marks these can be removed as a last step when you trim the outline cut to it's finial size, this is done by useing the side of your V tool. Another way of saying this is to cut your outside outline undersized and your inside outline over sized so you have a little metal there for protection which will be cleaned up later. (2) Put a good size radius along the bottom corners of your background removal tool so that if it does touch it is less likely to leave a mark. (3) Lines on your main design are for reference and should be light, on Carl W.s design notice that the one curved line is a bit deep this will cause problems later when we start sculpting. (4) To help from damageing the outline while removing the background you may need to work with your tool at a higher angle to do this useing the Lindsay sharpener put a few pieces of paper or thin cardboard under the template while stoning, the rule is the deeper you go the steeper and shorter your heel must be.(5) If you don't feel that your first try is where you are happy with it (at any point) start over, it's just a practice plate and the more cutting you do the better you get, correcting mistakes is how we learn.
Gail as soon as you can pick up your tools give us a cut and show.
Carl Bleile
southwest,Ohio

Last edited by carl bleile; 04-08-2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason: adding
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:46 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Here is my effort so far....



I`m just using an onglette and flat graver as i don`t have any templates or special tools yet....
Better get on with some proper paying work now!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-09-2009, 04:50 AM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl:
I have no problem with you using my design for reference. Use it in any way you wish.
You have mentioned several points that I may discuss at a later date, but one needs to be addressed now. I am trying to put the radius on the tools, but it seems to dull them. What in the heck am I doing wrong. I spent most of the day yesterday sharpening, and did not have a lot of luck. I am going to have to buy more graver blanks.

Today I think I will cut another design under this one and use the top one for practice cuts, while we advance.

One quick question, are the side walls of the outline supposed to be 90 degrees with the surface, or is there a taper from the shape of the tool. I tried to make it 90 and that may be why I buggered it up in the turns.

Gemsetterchris;
Good start it looks good
Carl Wallace
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:03 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Thanks Carl,
I did make the fatal error of cutting on my line rather than taking into account the tool face getting wider as i went deeper, therefore i ended up with smaller islands and more background !

Anyway i know better for next time, i will finish this one though.
I am doing this push style by the way.

Now my lyndsay template just arrived so thats my work day finished
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:43 AM
Roger Bleile's Avatar
Roger Bleile Roger Bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,658
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I'm going to jump in here with one simple piece of advice.

Keep in mind that when you are engraving a design without background removal that the cut line is looked at as part of the foreground. In other words if you are outlining a leaf, your outline cut is seen as the edge of the leaf.

When you are engraving a design where the background is to be removed, your entire outlining cut will become part of the background. So you must compensate for this by either drawing your design slightly fuller or make your outlining cuts to the outside edge of the lines you have drawn or transferred.

I hope this helps. Just another way to explain what my brother said. Giving engraving instructions in writing is much more difficult than in person.

CRB
__________________
C. Roger Bleile
Author of: American Engravers series of books. FEGA Historian and Founding Charter Member
http://www.engravingglossary.com/
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:10 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Makes sense Roger.

I'm going to restate it to make sure I'm understanding it correctly:

With a V cut, when you don't remove the background the bottom of the V is seen as the edge of the leaf so you want the center of your cut to be on the line you want for the edge.

But when you remove the background you remove half of the V, leaving you with just / and now it's the top edge of that cut that's the edge of the leaf so you need to cut far enough outside the line that the 'top edge' of your cut runs along the line you want to be the edge of the leaf.
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:55 AM
Roger Bleile's Avatar
Roger Bleile Roger Bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,658
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVD View Post
Makes sense Roger.

I'm going to restate it to make sure I'm understanding it correctly:

With a V cut, when you don't remove the background the bottom of the V is seen as the edge (the outside of the cut is seen as the edge) of the leaf so you want the center of your cut to be on the line you want for the edge (correct).

But when you remove the background you remove half of the V, leaving you with just / and now it's the top edge of that cut that's the edge of the leaf so you need to cut far enough outside the line that the 'top edge' of your cut runs along the line you want to be the edge of the leaf. correct
See comments in red above.
__________________
C. Roger Bleile
Author of: American Engravers series of books. FEGA Historian and Founding Charter Member
http://www.engravingglossary.com/
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:25 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I understand that and should have known better (was midnight when cut),
Anyway probably a good reference for others.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-09-2009, 12:04 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

A quick reply,Carl W. put a very small radius on the corners of your cutting edge(mostly for strength) and a large radius behind it because where you will be nicking is not with the heel area but behind it. The side walls of the out side lines should be as close to 90 degrees as you can get this will help in the visual effect of depth. Do not cut away you scribed or drawn lines this will be done later in the clean up stage also it will remove any nicks. Ill go into more detail later and see if I can show some pictures showing how to cut up to a line.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
PS. I have added a quick picture of the sculpted plate so you may have a better idea of where we are going. If you click on the picture (after clicking on the thumbnail) it will show you a larger picture then move your pointer to the lower right corner and click the little expand box for a larger look.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0913.jpg (91.1 KB, 297 views)

Last edited by carl bleile; 04-09-2009 at 12:08 PM. Reason: add text
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-09-2009, 12:17 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I forgot to add that, when looking at the sculpted plate you can see where and why the lines in the main design should be cut lightly at first, if they are deep they could be in a place where sculpting is to be done.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-09-2009, 02:04 PM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I`m almost done with a second try which should be a bit nearer the mark
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-09-2009, 02:26 PM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemsetterchris View Post
I`m almost done with a second try which should be a bit nearer the mark

Let us see some pics.
Carl
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-09-2009, 02:39 PM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Will do mate, i`ll put them both side by side.
Bit late and dark now so will do in better conditions...
Still need to finish the background flattening abit more yet but it`s coming along.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:37 PM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I cut another design below the first one today and it is not much better if any. I tried different tools and reshaped the ones that I had already been using. spent more time with that than cutting. Guess that is normal for a newbie.

Since Carl B. showed the finished look, I started a little shaping and soon found out that I need to wait for the next step. So I got sidetracked on the other side of the practice plate with Roger's Flare Cut, and worked on it for a while. I just need all the cutting practice I can get in the time that I have to devote to it.

Later
CarlW
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-10-2009, 03:17 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Ok, here is my 2nd attempt...


I`m alot happier with this one.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:47 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

1. I did a quick practice plate to show how to work up to your lines, remove background, and finish detailing. First picture I scribed a line and cut along next to it using my deepline tool (red template), in doing deep relief I would leave a little metal next to my cut line incase I would get any marks or nicks while doing the deep relief. As seen in picture 2 I have move the cut line up to my scribed line by cutting with the side of my tool this would be done in the detailing stage.
While I was at the bench thought I might take this farther to show more tool usage I scribed some more lines and cut next to them as in pic. 3 and 4, as I said before lean your tool away from the scribed line as in pic. 5. Picture 6 is starting to remove the background with my flat tool (blue template).In picture 7 I have cut up to the scribed lines both on the inside (little square) and outside. In picture 8 I have finished the details and matted the background. Now that it is done I wish it were much bigger so the angles would have shown better. Hope this helps with some of the cutting problems, Ill try and post the rest of the original article tonight.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0982.jpg (72.4 KB, 272 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0983.jpg (69.7 KB, 258 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0987.jpg (77.4 KB, 251 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0988.jpg (72.8 KB, 249 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0989.jpg (60.7 KB, 257 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0991.jpg (65.5 KB, 269 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0997.jpg (78.5 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0998.jpg (76.7 KB, 251 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1000.jpg (62.8 KB, 282 views)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-10-2009, 03:34 PM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Carl B,
Am I correct in saying that the first cut should be well off the line, then the next line as you go deeper will close in on the line and so forth? And one quick question, do you make your outside lines on the border and the design to max depth before removing any background. I hope I made myself clear. Maybe I should say is this what you mean when you talk about making your islands smaller.

Carl Wallace
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:31 PM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Oh sure - give us more details after I get my first bit done!



Spent most of the day grinding the tools - I have got to get me something high speed for initial shaping. Either one of Tom's whizzers or, if I can find a spot to leave my cheap drill press set up, a mandrel for it.

Anyway, I did eventually get to cutting.

Since it's supposed to fit under a penny the first thing I did was trace around a penny and scribe that in.'

Took a couple of tries to get something that looked vaguely like your design.

I did my first cuts next to the lines and did them very lightly - almost like a heavy scribe line. Then I cut next to those lines and started going deep.

Had to narrow my sculpting tip (blue) but when I made it I figured I might have to. Always easier to make them narrower than it is to make them wider.

My first attempt at a matting punch came out more of a burnisher but eh, it's flat (ish).

On this first attempt I'm just trying to get the ideas pounded in. I won't demand perfection until at least my third try.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg svdds01.jpg (165.2 KB, 143 views)
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:33 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Gemsetter if you are at the depth you want then it's time to start sculpting,
but useing the tools you have is it possible to make it a little deeper, this would help with the sculpting and give a more 3-d look.
Carl W. When you are new to sculpting it would be good to leave a small space between your cut and the line because I can guarantee you will nick or mar your boarders, this space between line and cut is a safty area that you can clean up after all your rough work is done.
I make my cuts to max. depth before sculpting but at first this might be hard to do in that case cut the outline and remove background if it does not seem deep enough then repeat, matt the background this makes it easyer to see the depth.
You make your islands of metal smaller by leaning your tool toward them and away from the outline.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:55 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Steve, just saw your post. As I ask Gemsetter could you make your piece a little deeper, as we move along to sculpting (the fun stuff this part is just plain work) you will find that more depth gives you more freedom to carve and move things around. For a background punch use a thin or long tapered tool steel rod or regrind a pin punch, At the end grind the tip around at 45 degrees this will add strength, don't get to picky about the grinding it's used to make a bunch of tiny craters in the background.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-10-2009, 06:03 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

P.S. You people are doing great, it's nice to see that there are a of engravers following along with us and I hope some of them will show how they are doing. I think there is one thing I should add and that is you don't have to make your designs as small as mine, if you feel like you want to make it the size of a half dollar go for it.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-10-2009, 06:29 PM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Steve:

I copied Carl B.'s design in My Documents then opened it in another program and reduced it to actual size then printed it in reverse black only and transfered the design, only took a few minutes. I figured I could do that faster than I could fiddle with drawing and placing it under a penny. Hope this helps.
Carl Wallace
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-10-2009, 10:42 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I have forgotten to mention the power tools I was useing on this piece. The deep outline and background were done with the Lindsay Artisan, the sculpting with the Lindsay Classic, scraping with the Lindsay push tool handpiece. Either one of the power tools could complete the job, the Classic had more power but didn't need to call on it for this piece and it's adjustment ring on the hand piece was a little easier and quicker to use than adjusting the air pressure knob on the Artisan regulator. As I have said in the past concerning the 3 Lindsay air power handpieces you can go from digging out the deepest background to the finest shading with one handpiece, just put in the right tool bit.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0980.jpg (87.4 KB, 162 views)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-11-2009, 01:03 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Ok, i will get digging

Coming along slowly since i have not got Carl`s templates and no heel on my flat graver.
Final dimensions will be 15x7x0.5mm.
I won`t bother with a pic of the deeper version.

Just about done, how are you guys getting along... SVD, Carl?

Last edited by Gemsetterchris; 04-11-2009 at 12:33 PM. Reason: update +
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:36 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

It's time to get sculpting, in the first picture on the left is what we have so far and the right is where we want to finish up. Notice where the high and low areas are, mark the high ridges with a light scribe to help guide your cuts. Using the sculpting tool ( a flat form the blue template or a flat that you like to use) hold it on an angle and start cutting away metal. Look at the pictures of the work in progress for a reference. I could go on and on with words but instead Ill wait for you questions.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Attached Images
File Type: jpg twin.jpg (128.0 KB, 237 views)
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-12-2009, 12:01 AM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Now that you have seen what we have and where we want to be lets see the work in progress. In pictures 4 and 5 I'm using my narrow deepline tool with a tiny radius to do depth detail for a crisp look, also any other areas that need touching up. I would expect that everyones finished piece will look a little different because as you cut you will get a feel for where you want things to go.
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Attached Images
File Type: jpg re 1.jpg (97.2 KB, 303 views)
File Type: jpg sc cr.jpg (83.1 KB, 290 views)
File Type: jpg sc cr2.jpg (90.1 KB, 285 views)
File Type: jpg ln cp.jpg (102.4 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0908.jpg (71.4 KB, 274 views)
File Type: jpg fin 1.jpg (152.3 KB, 263 views)
File Type: jpg fin 2.jpg (97.4 KB, 276 views)

Last edited by carl bleile; 04-12-2009 at 12:09 AM. Reason: text
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-12-2009, 05:15 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Thanks for posting that Carl, going to interesting to see what we all end up with
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-12-2009, 11:04 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Ok, got tied up yesterday but today I should get to both deepen my first try and take a copy of Carl's design to cut. After that I'll start sculpting and see what I get.

Should be back later today with pictures.
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-13-2009, 07:57 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Ok, technically it's tomorrow but that's just because I didn't get a chance to get on-line last night.

I cut a copy of Carl's design as a backup and then, after cutting it deeper, started sculpting my first attempt. It's not looking too bad - still needs smoothing and I haven't stippled the background yet. I'm at the stage of hand pushing the scraper trying to get everything smoothed and refined, just basically fiddling with it trying to get it to look right.

Made a new matting punch from one of the steel points I got in the other day. Need to grind the shank on that down a bit so I can get in to smaller spots with it.

Lessons learned so far:

I need to make my tips even smaller and I need to work on relieving the edges back away from the point more.

I need to go deeper! On the one pictured I'm around a mm deep - maybe a little more but once you start sculpting you want it deeper.

When you get to the scraping stage of the sculpting you really do want to hand push.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg svdds2.jpg (74.1 KB, 170 views)
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-13-2009, 08:40 AM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

OK, here it is. I wish I had not begin the sculpting before Carl told us to scribe lines. BTW the deep line in the original cut did cause lots of problems. I will know better next time. I wish I had took Carl's advice and did it larger, for I too am having trouble getting my tools small enough and I know practicing will soon pay off as to the shape and grind of the tools. I will do another one this week. The next shot will be about the size of a quarter. The experience with this terrible piece should make the next one a little better. I have a lot to do this week other than practicing, (bummer), but it has to be done. Maybe I can get some practice in the evenings if I am not too tired.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sculpting Practice.JPG (49.0 KB, 161 views)
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-13-2009, 09:10 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Finally managed to find time this weekend to carve.
That was fun though quite tricky in certain places.

Here is what i ended up with...

Certainly a great lesson and a new method for me to practice.
Many thanks for doing this for us Carl!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:14 AM
CarlW's Avatar
CarlW CarlW is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Diamondhead, MS
Posts: 285
Send a message via AIM to CarlW
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

Gemsetterchris:
Looking good. Definitely looks better than mine. Is yours the small penny size or larger?
__________________
Carl Wallace

Life Member NRA
FEGA Member
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:22 AM
Gemsetterchris's Avatar
Gemsetterchris Gemsetterchris is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nokia,Finland
Posts: 385
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I used an English penny size and the actual dimensions of the design to the outer edge of the background are...15mm x 7mm x 0.5mm deep.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:25 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,559
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

That's around the same size as ours (or at least mine).

After looking more closely at Carl's pictures I may make myself a larger scraper - some of the lines I'm getting are from the corners.
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:50 PM
carl bleile's Avatar
carl bleile carl bleile is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 275
Default Re: DEEP SCULPTING pratice with Carl Bleile

I would like to thank Carl W. and svd Steve for showing all of us their work and for this I will offer one full day of training or if they make it to the engrave in I will give them a lesson on a subject of their choice.( p.m. or call me )
Gemsetterchris since you live so far away p.m. me with anything I can help you with.
This was not an easy practice but I included all the cuts you will need to learn to do other styles of sculpting and in training your hands to do this other work will come more easily.
I would like to see some other peoples work when they are ready and we all may learn from them, so this is not an end to this thread but a begining to others who will give it a try.
Hope to see more work
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Conduct
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.