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  #1  
Old 02-01-2009, 07:57 PM
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plat955 plat955 is offline
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Default Rose Engine Turning...

I dont know a whole lot about this... but it looks really cool! Gail mentioned it on the geometric lathe thead I posted, so I looked around a little bit. Here is a guy producing modern versions of old machines. I guess it can be used in metal or wood. Enjoy!

http://roseengine1.com/
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2009, 08:05 PM
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plat955 plat955 is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Whoa..... LOL yeah I'm buying one LOL check this Video out!

http://www.roseengineturning.biz/video.php
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2009, 07:33 AM
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Tim Wells Tim Wells is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Geeeeez, I'm foaming at the mouth! I want one of these to play with.
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2009, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

And another thing for the APB (After PowerBall) list.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2009, 12:16 PM
Aventuraal Aventuraal is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Interesting as it is, this machine is not the be-all and end all of ornamental turning. The king of the hill is the Holtzapffel Ornamental Turning Lathes, built in the late 1800's. I have thought about building a CNC version of one, since it would be much more versatile (and productive) to use CNC rather than the old fashioned cams, templates, fly-cutters and wild oscillating carriages that were used. You can find out lots more about ornamental turning @ www.ornamentalturning.net. There is a fairly complete history of the Holtapffel lathes, and things related to ornamental turning, the "hobby of kings".....they were the only ones with enough time and money to play.
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2009, 07:47 PM
ArtisticAttributes ArtisticAttributes is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Must be my youth, but I have never seen anything like that, Pretty neat get up.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2009, 06:05 PM
paulcdfoss paulcdfoss is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Really cool stuff,

I love old machinery, leather belts, worm gears, etc.

Thanks for the post I dug it.
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2009, 10:48 AM
Cassie Cassie is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

This is not the 'old stuff'. There's a guy who rebuilds old ornamental lathes and the last one he sold for $30,000.
This is what the Fabrage (sp) workshop used under their enamels. It's a monster compared to this modern version.
I was trying to track down the modified drill press used as a support for an engraving ball.
Every time I come to this site I get sidetracked; it's always interesting.
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2009, 12:21 AM
pwr pwr is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

It might be interesting to some to understand that these "rose" engines are not the only type of machine to do this type of work. They are the "lathe" type, and renowned for the more complex work they can do. Lots and lots of old pocket watch case backs and dials used to be done with these rose engines (think of those somewhat checkered patterns that looked like radial lines intersecting each other. Actually just many "round" lines with a sine wave wiggle to them, each line offset by a half wiggle, so the pattern is a bunch of little diamond shaped peaks)

The other main catagory of this type of machine is the straight line machine. On these, the work travels up and down as you turn the hand crank, rather than rotating. A rubber on the moving slide follows not a rosette, but a bar with various patterns. Straight line machines may actually have been more common than the rose engines, and you can still often find them for sale in used jewelry machine companies, especially around Providence. Gold Machinery from time to time sells them on ebay. Lots of different patterns can be done with parallel lines of various patterns, by varying the offset from line to line. The work chuck can also be indexed in the rotary plane, making radial lines possible. The reference to Faberge work is interesting, since actually, from what I've seen, more of it was done on the straight line machines than the lathe types (rose engines)
Another link worth checking out is the British firm of Pledge and Aldworth
http://www.pledge.co.uk/pledge_and_a...f/refconts.htm
Lots of good background, photos of old machines, and patterns you can get. You'll note that much, if not most, of the work they do happens to be with the straight line machines, not the rose engines, though they have both available. And among the smaller old american made straight line machines (one of which I restored and still own), quite a number are still in use in some of the older east coast factories (or at least, were ten years ago...) Doing things like patterns on pen barrels, clasps, cigarette lighters, and the like.
Peter
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2009, 05:19 PM
Old_Biker_UK Old_Biker_UK is offline
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Wink Time on your hands ?

If you have a supply of brass plate & a spare weekend you could always make one of these.

Mark (Absolute Beginner)
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  #11  
Old 03-25-2009, 01:21 PM
Paul Ryder Paul Ryder is offline
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Default Re: Time on your hands ?

I have a Rose Engine made in about 1820 in Edinburgh. This was made by Andrew Patterson and reputably made for Lord Muncaster and is said to have cost £1500 pounds. You could have bought an entire village for that in those days!!!
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2009, 04:56 PM
jjdon jjdon is offline
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Default Re: Time on your hands ?

Rose engines are engraving machines, basically. A sharp tool cuts a line on a path that makes shallow cuts in patterns. The Holtzapffel lathes did ornamental turning - fluting, spiralling and much more. Basically they take a chisel of a certain profile and turn in on a mandrel in the toolholder of the lathe, which has an indexed headstock. The chisel actually removes as much material as is wanted, and the whole thing is indexed. Two very different machines. His book:
http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Pra...8017842&sr=1-1
Tells you all about it. Notice the cover shot, how the work is carved, not just engraved.
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  #13  
Old 04-10-2009, 08:19 PM
mike crevar mike crevar is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

My name is Mike Crevar and I own and operate a gun shop in southwest PA where I work on high-end firearms. I’ve been a full-time gunsmith for almost 40 years and have been “tinkering” with engraving for about 20 years. I own a Graver Max and also a GraverMeister with all the necessary sharpening tools and the small items to do some minor engraving. My magnifiers are 2-1/2power and 4-power Zeiss surgical magnifier glasses. Any serious advice to proceed with the finer depths of this trade would be appreciated. Thanks.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2009, 10:55 AM
James Miller FIPG James Miller FIPG is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

I am a UK goldsmith and I have used the services of a professional engine turner many times on my jobs. I have used the skills of two engine turners in my time, they are Gerald Mayo who was Cartier trained, and David Pledge of Pledge and Aldworth. Gerald has since retired and he sold his Plant straight line and rose engines to Robert Whiteside in Texas, who sadly was murdered a few years ago. Heres a few photos, one is of Gerald Mayo at his Plant straight line machine and the other three shows the work of David Pledge on one of my table sets. The central bowl was 16 inches diameter, I hope you like them.
James Miller FIPG.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MM.Gerald Mayo.jpg (72.9 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg 084- 7 bowl Table set 3.jpg (80.0 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg 086-Central bowl set 3.jpg (108.6 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg 085- Side bowl set 3.jpg (97.2 KB, 49 views)
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2009, 10:58 PM
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plat955 plat955 is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Greetings Mr. Miller.

I have been a fan of your work for some time and I have to say that it would be an understatement to tell you that your work is just incredible!

Cheers
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  #16  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:23 PM
Blackwood Blackwood is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Mr. Crevar,

You might want to see the engine turning machines demonstrated prior to jumping in. James Miller mentioned that Gerald Mayo sold his machines to Robert Whiteside who was murdered. I believe the 14 inch Plant Straightline and the Plant Small Round were later sold to RGM Watch Company, 801 West Main St., Mount Joy, PA which might be close enough to visit. RGM does give tours & open houses on certain days of the year from my understanding. They also have a Neuweiler & Engelsberger Round & Straight machines and a Leinhard Round machine. I do not believe they have a example of a brocading machine.

Bob
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:15 AM
Buco Buco is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

Awesome contraption...Mind Boggling my friend!
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2012, 12:18 AM
monk monk is offline
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Default Re: Rose Engine Turning...

i once saw a book featuring the holtzapfel rose engine lathe. several pages showed some of the amazing work this intricate machine could produce. in its' time, must have been the "primo, go to toy", for the well heeled gentleman that could afford its' price. not sure if it was in "fine woodworking" magazine, or what.
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