Antique Ruling Machine

[InkyB]

This machine was originally owned by the John A Lowell banknote company (New England agents of the Continental Banknote Company). It went through many loving hands and had modifications and additions until it came to Warren G Ogden Jr - a top engineer at Raytheon during WWII.

It now belongs to me. I have a number of his correspondences along with it but there are some mysteries.

My biggest challenge is learning how it works. I understand the concepts about it and how it works basically but I need to learn how these type of machines work.

Does anyone here have any advice for me or knowledge?

[GeneC]

About all's I can do for Ya is tell you to spray it with some WD 40. Looks like it would be fun to mess with. Thanks for sharing

[Ron Landis]

I have a similar machine, but mine doesn't have the complex indexing thingy like this one. I think mine is a Cronite. I've never used mine, but built a simpler ruling machine that I've used a few times playing around with banknote style printing. This is a nice one and probably worth a lot of money to the right guy.

[Sefac]

Try this link to information from the Smithsonian. Download is slow so have a cup of coffee.
http://www.sil.si.edu/SmithsonianCon.../SSHT-0032.pdf

Also additional information from Google patents.

[LesHolmes]

I would love to see something created by this machine. Will you please post pictures?

Les

[LVVP]

Sefac,

Thank you for the link

[InkyB]

Originally Posted by LesHolmes

I would love to see something created by this machine. Will you please post pictures?

Les

I am working of it!

[InkyB]

Originally Posted by Sefac

Try this link to information from the Smithsonian. Download is slow so have a cup of coffee.
http://www.sil.si.edu/SmithsonianCon.../SSHT-0032.pdf

Also additional information from Google patents.

I suspected it had a tracing attachment!

[leonel]

does this machine hold a graver on one side cause if it do you just mite have one of a kind plate engraver

[leonel]

ok I found some information on your machine what you have is a banknote pattern engraver what it does is after an engraver made all the details on a plate they would put it on one of these machine and engrave the line patterns on the bill what it made it difficult to counter fit the bill there capable of doing all types of pattern by just moving a few gears the table actually rocks side to side and back and fourth if it steel works a collector would pay top dollars there is a guy that could give u more info on it his name is Stuart king his web page www.stuartking.co.uk there's a video on you tube called banknote and coin engraving that shows about 3 model different from these one but the same concept

[InkyB]

That is exactly what this is used for. It also seems to have a relief tracing attachment and at least one cycloid attachment. It also can take wave patterns. And yes it works like a charm. It also comes with an interesting series of letters and notes from the engineer owner who I am sure these collectors would know as he was a prominent scholar in turning engines.

It originally belonged to the John Lowell Bank Note Company of Boston and seems to date from about 1870 or so. It was bought by employees of the firm to keep it from being scrapped.

Warren G Ogden, a top engineer at Raytheon during WWII who went on to become a leading scholar in Holtzapffel rose engines came across it and fell in love with it, buying it to preserve it. I have a number of letters in his hand including one to Robert N Steffans, founder of the Cronite Company and author of the Engraved Stationery Handbook asking for advice about his "special machine".

From Ornamental turning.net:

"Warren Green Ogden, Jr. (1906-1991)
Ogden lived in North Andover, Massachusetts where he was a top-level engineer and precision instrument maker. He worked on many U.S. government projects, especially during World War II and later for NASA. While not noted for the actual performance of ornamental turning, Ogden was as a master toolmaker who provided invaluable assistance in making and repairing broken or missing parts for ornamental turning lathes and apparatus.

But he would be most remembered for his work in documenting the Holtzapffel family genealogy and their achievements in designing and making ornamental turning lathes, which he began in 1952. Various portions of his research were published in the Society of Ornamental Turners Bulletins which were eventually expanded to a complete volume, The Pedigree of Holtzapffel Lathes, published in 1987. Much of the material on the history that appeared in Knox's Ornamental Turnery came from Ogden's extensive research and from his association with the British Science Museum.

Ogden also worked with Abell and Leggat to produce the Bibliography of Lathe and Machine Tool History which has become one of the most useful tools of the technical historian. This was first published by the Society of Ornamental Turners in 1950 and later in 1987 as A Bibliography of the Art of Turning & Lathe and Machine Tool History.

His most treasured possession was the famous and fully equipped combined Holtzapffel rose engine / ornamental turning lathe No. 1636. He also maintained a magnificent library of more than 3000 books along with one of the finest workshops. For a tribute to Ogden, see the Society of Ornamental Turners Bulletins #85. A complete, detailed biography of Ogden is found in the preface to The Pedigree of Holtzapffel Lathes."

Even after selling his prized turning engine this machine held a prized place in his shop until after his death.

I obtained the machine along with an old pantograph and a number of documents from Warren Ogden III and have since worked with Robert R. Stephans the current owner of Cronite to really assess it and get her working though she does work well as she was maintained quite lovingly.

It was an eery moment when I got the machine to my shop and started reading the letters and realized the longest one was to the late father of my friend whom I had just bought an intaglio die stamping engraving press from not a week before. He seemed noticeably moved by reading the letter.

There are some extra parts and gears that I am loving trying to solve and I'm sure a collector would love even more as they are all hand made even down to the little pins and screws.

Mr Stephan's probably knows more than most folks from a history of American banknote production and the manufacture of these machines which Cronite still does (though there's are far smaller and more simple). He said he has never seen one with so large a working table. You could really fit a nice sized plate on this machine.


I appreciate you looking into this. It is a fascinating story to say the least.

[InkyB]

Edit - accidentally posted twice

[spike]

Want to sell it?

[leonel]

hey InkiB I would love to see it if you have a store pm me the info to see if I could make the trip

[InkyB]

Originally Posted by spike

Want to sell it?

It would depend on the buyer.

[monk]

amongst others, likely produces harmonic motion. such creates beautiful patterns that can be repeated. i don't think these remarkable patterns are likely produced by hand, tho i could be wrong.

[slipped]

I could make some wonderful sundials with that machine.

[poppylaqrry]

I have something similar to your machine. Its a Royle-Richards engravers ruling machine. Can't seam to find out how much it is worth. It belonged to my grandfather and then my father. I was a pantograph engraver for 48 years. This machine sat in my fathers basement for almost 50 years. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, poppylarry

[Steve Lindsay]

Hi Poppylaqrry, I ended up purchasing this machine from Inkb several years back. There are still a lot of questions to this one. Seems like there have been revisions and modifications to it. There are duplicates of some things and others missing.

Can you take some photos of yours and post them here? It would be interesting to compare and see if we can figure them out more.

[poppylaqrry]

Not to be nosey, but what did you pay for the machine? This one looks pretty complete based on the photo I have. Will try to send photos.

[Steve Lindsay]

Ok..great on photos when you get a chance. We did a trade. An AirGraver.

[pmace]

It would be such a blast to figure out how that guy works and make up a manual and sample book! And to think they made that without CAD or CNC.

[poppylaqrry]

click this link to see the machine I have in my basement right now. Cleaning
it up is taking some time but it look in very good condition. Will send photos when done.
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex...l.aspx?id=6322

[pmace]

That looks like a nice machine. It will be interesting to see one cleaned up and in working order. Send us some pics when you're done.

[poppylaqrry]

Here it is. Will send more photos later.

[Steve Lindsay]

Originally Posted by poppylaqrry

Here it is. Will send more photos later.

Nice!

[pmace]

Steve
When you get it figured out let us know. I'd love to see some examples of what it can do.
Now you just have to find a geometric lathe and you can start printing banknotes.

[poppylaqrry]

Here are more pictures of my Royle and Sons ruling machine.

[Steve Lindsay]

It looks in super shape. Have you gotten to try it and make some lines?

[poppylaqrry]

I have not tried to cut anything yet. I have been too busy just getting the machine in top notch condition. Will post after trying to cut into metal.

[poppylaqrry]

Something I cut last night. Machine table will move in .001 increments and 1 degree rotation increments. You can set the cutting depth in .001 increments also. Will send more photos.

[pmace]

It looks like there is a drum or roller for producing patterns. Is there just the one or are there multiples? Nice work.

[Steve Lindsay]

Originally Posted by poppylaqrry

Something I cut last night. Machine table will move in .001 increments and 1 degree rotation increments. You can set the cutting depth in .001 increments also. Will send more photos.

Missed this earlier. Cool! Have you tried some more cutting with it? If easy, take some pics of what it is cutting while in the machine.

[poppylaqrry]

Will post some pictures later. Hope some good ones.

[TRH]

I have a couple of these machines and have made use of them for over 40 years. Mine do not have all the bells and whistles that yours does, but they are better and much larger than the Cronite machines that are currently available. One came from the Security-Columbian Engraving business when it was scrapped in the 1960's and one was bought from a retired American banknote letter engraver in the 70's. I also owned an old indexing type ruling machine in the 80's which I sold to an apprentice. Each of these machines was hand built by master machinists in the 1800's and each has been completely different in design. They were all well-used and tinkered with before I got them. They do not engrave into the metal. They scribe lines through an acid resist ground on the surface of the plate and the lines are created by etching. Drypoint surface marks can be made for layout, but they are very shallow. The link to the Smithsonian site is a different sort of machine, being a medal engraver, but your machine carriage could be adapted for this as well. I would happily trade one of my machines for a good air graver set-up. I have been engraving for intaglio printing for nearly 50 years by hand and have never tried a power-assisted graver. Operating these ruling machines is very very tedious and exacting, but the results achieved in using them can be extraordinary.

[Steve Lindsay]

Hi Trh, Good info. Do you have some photos you can post or the machines? Also any work you've done with them would be great to see.