hard to believe........

[Gail]

Here's a quote by Thomas Jefferson that really struck me betreen the eyes... (remember, he wrote this over 200 years ago!)

"'The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution... Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies... (and) if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and CORPORATIONS that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

Who were these prophetic men, our Founding Fathers? They seem almost on another plateau compared with their contemporaries, and posessed a knowledge that at times appear to be almost supernatural when one understands all that they achieved. I am always in awe when I read their work. I especially like reading the Federalist papers.
Our current group of 'fathers' would do well to stop peeing on our legs and telling us it is only rain. They have lavished too much upon themselves by leveraging the public trough of taxpayer money.
gailm

[WVEngraver]

Hi Gail,

Most folks have no idea who our founders were ... "just a bunch of dead white guys" is what you'll hear.

Andrew Jackson fought the banks tooth and nail and won ...

"The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it. "

... until the despot, socialist and failure of a president Woodrow Wilson signed it all away with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act and the illegally ratified 16th Amendment.

Why do banks recommend appointees and employees to the Treasury Department ... because they own it. The hens of Wilsonian Doctrine have finally returned home to roost.

Catch ya later,

Chris

[Gail]

yah Chris,
The 16 17 and 18 amendments are the sorriest of the lot, at least to date, but don't hold your breath.
Without a doubt the 16th was illegally ratified.
The Federal Reserve act was passed by a select group at 11PM Christmas Eve that year, after everyone else had left DC to go home for Christmas. They called themselves 'progressives', even back then.
gailm

[tonytigerhk45]

Hello Gail and Chris. In my opinion the so called congress of today are way out of touch with anything that is going on around the country unlike the congress of yesteryear, why? They are more urbanized and technically burdened that they have no idea of how it is to live in rural America and to grow up not having everything handed to them and done for them. A lot of them are probably book smart and well educated on lots of stuff but don't have enough common sense to function as a single person so they have to have someone do their thinking for them. They don't understand the constitution and the bill of rights and that government is of the people, by the people, and for the people, not, of the gov., by the gov., for the gov.! In my opinion congress should be like jury duty and every time there is a new prez. there is a new Congress made up of the common people. They would have dormitory style housing and cafeteria style meals and would have to use government transportation. They would receive a salary that is predetermined and reasonable and their jobs would be save and secure until their term was up. They would be issued service weapons (revolver, or pistol, and a rifle) and taught how to use them and clean them and would have to qualify with them every year. They would have to carry them at all times and they would have to put them in their personal lockers during sessions of congress for obvious reasons. The laws and bills to be passed would be written in plain common sense language and no piggy backing of other laws or pork barrel attachments. These are just a few things that I have thought about that might would help the government out of their cow pie of a mess they are in. Just my 2 cents worth.

[SVD]

Tony

Sounds pretty good but I do have a couple of exceptions.

They would be issued service weapons (revolver, or pistol, and a rifle) and taught how to use them and clean them and would have to qualify with them every year. They would have to carry them at all times and they would have to put them in their personal lockers during sessions of congress for obvious reasons.

Why would they have to store them during sessions? If they can be trusted with 'em on the street they can be trusted with them in session. Besides, a gun left in its holster is much less likely to go off than one being fiddled with.

Second, the House is almost set up this way since it's intended to be the 'responsive to the people' branch. Still a big advantage for the incumbents so less turnover than we really need though.

I've heard a number of people say that changing the Senate from 'selected by the State Government' to 'elected by the people' was a big mistake, partly because (with a few notable exceptions) they tend to change parties periodically which tends to cause a change in Senator.

Myself, I think what really ruined our Government was air conditioning. Before central air Washington, D.C. was considered a hazardous duty assignment by foreign delegations. The area's basically a fever swamp which is why the surrounding states were happy to give it up to form the district. Shut off the AC and I'll be they'd be spending a lot less time finding new ways to interfere with us.

[tonytigerhk45]

Ha Steve, the reason for the lockers is for those heated discussions that happen sometimes between the two party's. It is for their own safety. No matter how level headed some people are sometimes things do go wrong and get out of hand. This way they want shoot each other for some of the stupid stuff that comes out of people's mouths.

[Jroettger]

Term limits I think would bring out the best in people. The main problem I see is no long term thinking. The future never goes beyond the next election. As I understand it, the founding fathers all "had a life" beyond Washington. No one wants to make the hard correct choices for the country for fear of losing there power. Power is for using and these bums just squander it by pandering easy solutions to the masses. "Elect me and I will procrastinate the hard of the nation for you."

[Peter]

Thomas Jefferson IS one of my all time heroes as one of the founders of our great country.

I will not go into what I think about the politicians and billionaires of business that led our country into the situation we are now facing.

Also, one of Thomas Jeffersons greatest fears was that there may not be leaders strong enough to maintain what the founders of America created.

I sure hope he was wrong about that feeling.

Peter

[WVEngraver]

That's right Gail.

While we're on the subject of Amendments ... I believe it all begins with the illegally enacted 14th. In particular ... the incorporation clause. While we're at it, let's toss in the definition of "citizen" because without it, a few subsequent amendments would be rendered completely moot.

Enforcing laws based on illegally enacted Constitutional amendments is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated against the American people. It's an organized crime syndicate operating a fun house mirror of "traditions" which was once democracy and sometime before that republic.

As long as people have their "traditions" they will continue to believe they actually have a choice on election day. They'll believe all the voting machines are working fine. And $5.3 billion spent on this years election will continue to be less significant than what Sarah Palin is wearing.

[Ddbltrbl]

Gail,
I totally agree with your sentiment and I am a huge fan of Thomas Jefferson (along with many other of our Founding Fathers).

However, I must caution that the authenticity of that particular quote is in question. You can read about it here under disputes: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

Still, your point remains just as valid. On the subject of a central bank like the Federal Reserve, Thomas Jefferson did say, "[The] Bank of the United States... is one of the most deadly hostility existing, against the principles and form of our Constitution... An institution like this, penetrating by its branches every part of the Union, acting by command and in phalanx, may, in a critical moment, upset the government. I deem no government safe which is under the vassalage of any self-constituted authorities, or any other authority than that of the nation, or its regular functionaries. What an obstruction could not this bank of the United States, with all its branch banks, be in time of war! It might dictate to us the peace we should accept, or withdraw its aids. Ought we then to give further growth to an institution so powerful, so hostile?" --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1803.

And he said, "The maxim of buying nothing without the money in our pockets to pay for it would make of our country one of the happiest on earth." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Donald, 1787

And he said, "We are now taught to believe that legerdemain tricks upon paper can produce as solid wealth as hard labor in the earth. It is vain for common sense to urge that nothing can produce but nothing; that it is an idle dream to believe in a philosopher's stone which is to turn everything into gold, and to redeem man from the original sentence of his Maker, 'in the sweat of his brow shall he eat his bread.'" --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816.

And on the cure for such problens he said, "I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820

And he said, "We are now trusting to those who are against us in position and principle, to fashion to their own form the minds and affections of our youth... This canker is eating on the vitals of our existence, and if not arrested at once, will be beyond remedy." --Thomas Jefferson to James Breckinridge, 1821

And he also said, "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816

Clearly, Mr. Jefferson was prophetic; he did understand the fundamental problems we face and tried to warn of them. Imagine the horror he would have felt seeing interviews of significant portions of our population that can't even correctly identify the political positions on the issues of the politicians they profess to support with almost radical devotion.

I wish more would raise their voices on the issues as you have here. Hopefully, such open dialog would help educate others to the funamental truths that were obvious to so many of our Founding Fathers over 200 years ago without AC, and are yet un-recognized by so many today.

Ok Steve, I'm done pontificating. You can hit the switch now!

[WVEngraver]

..... anything is possible with Wikipedia.

[Gail]

Hi Ddbltrbl,
I stand corrected on that embellishment of the basic thought.
However, the state of our current government has far out-embellished almost everything to do with the Constitution and our founding fathers.
Thank you for your comments and interest.
gailm

[Ddbltrbl]

Yeah, WV, I really hate quoting anything from Wiki, but they had the most detail on the dispute I could find.

I couldn't agree more with you on what a monumental farce the so called "ratification" of the 14th Amendment was. At least the Wiki article on it mentions the Georgia State Legislators and Utah Supreme Court challenges to the legality of it, albiet at the very bottom of the page.

Gail, Amen to that! If we don't find a way to start turning this around it may start getting really crowded out around Elv. 762 WV.

I vote, I try to educate myself and family, and share what I see with anyone who will listen. But, it sure gets frustrating always having to vote for th lesser of 2 evils!

[WVEngraver]

Hey Ddble ..

Wasn't trying to be a smart alec on that. So many quotes are unconfirmed and many errors can be traced to authors from as early as the early 19th century ... not much later than they were actually believed to be stated.

What amazes me about Wiki is how it is being used to disseminate propaganda, misinformation and historical revision for the purpose of political gain ... there's an article out there somewhere that shows a huge number of edits traced to ip addresses allegedly owned by the NSA/CIA etc. etc.


I'm delighted an honored to be a part of this forum with both you and Gail ... very well versed in American history. I enjoy these discussions very much.

There's always room here in the mountains for good friends (true patriots) who are fighting the good fight. Just remember to bring your musket!! Powder and ball will be provided.

To quote another famous man who never actually made this quote ... "The Old Guard dies, it does not surrender." -- Gen. Pierre Cambronne, Battle of Waterloo

Chris

[Gail]

Hi dbltrbl,
Voting.....?
Yes, I early voted yesterday, and I feel much the same as you, and I dare to say there are many that feel the same as we do.....what would you like, Alpo or Purina? Neither choice is tasty, but I have chosen one
On the one hand the Republicans don't really offer very much, and they are outmaneuvered by Iran, and fooled by the Russians and soft on Mexican lawbreakers.
On the other hand, the Democrats have PROMISED to make an even bigger mess of just about everything.
Take care,
gailm

[Paddlefoot]

For those of you that would like to read a good account of the United State's history of monetary policy "Gold, The Once And Future Money" by Nathan Lewis is a facinating book. It will open your eyes to all sorts of shenanigans that have gone on throughout history. It will make our current situation more understandable too.
Cliff

[Paddlefoot]

Also, Constitution party.com